>>> AFTER PRESIDENT OBAMA DREW
CRITICISM LAST WEEK WITH HIS
COMMENTS ABOUT NOT HAVING A
STRATEGY TO DEAL WITH ISIS AND
SYRIA, WE HEARD YESTERDAY A VERY
DIFFERENT AND DECISIVE MESSAGE
FROM THE PRESIDENT WHEN HE SPOKE
ABOUT ISIS AT THE NATO SUMMIT IN
WALES.
>> THERE'S GREAT CONVICTION THAT
WE HAVE TO ACT AS PART OF THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO
DEGRADE AND ULTIMATELY DESTROY
ISIL.
WE WILL DEGRADE AND ULTIMATELY
DEFEAT ISIL.
>> IS THAT WHAT WILL HAPPEN
NEXT?
WE WILL DEGRADE AND DEFEAT?
>> THEY WILL BEGIN THE PROCESS
AND HE HAS ONE AND OTHERS HAVE
THAT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING AT
THIS TABLE HAVE SUGGESTED THIS
IS NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS
OVERNIGHT AND THE MILITARY CAN
ONLY BE ONE PIECE OF A LARGER
PROBLEM.
THE TROUBLE IS THAT RIGHT NOW
THERE IS A PROBLEM AND IT HAS TO
BE ADDRESSED.
IN AN IDEAL WORLD, YOU STAND
BACK AND LET THE ARAB COUNTRIES
DEAL WITH THIS.
YOU CAN SAY AND MANY PEOPLE IN
THIS COUNTRY DO SAY, IT'S THEIR
PROBLEM, LET THEM FIX IT.
THE ANALOGY I MAKE IS IT'S LIKE
YOU'RE IN A -- YOU LIVE ON A
NICE BLOCK, A NICE STREET, AND
SOMEBODY WHO LIVES AT THE END OF
THE STREET IS THROWING THEIR
GARBAGE OUT IN THE OPEN AND SOON
THAT'S ATTRACTING WILD ANIMALS
AND YOUR KID IS GOING OUT IN THE
STREET IS IN DANGER.
IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT
IT, THOSE WILD ANIMALS COME TO
YOUR BACKYARD.
WHAT DO YOU SAY?
CALL YOUR NEIGHBOR AND SAY YOU
HAVE TO FIX IT OR GATHER THE
REST OF THE STREET TOGETHER AND
CLEAN UP OR GET RID OF THE WILD
ANIMALS?
THIS IS THE NATURE OF THE
PROBLEM.
RIGHT NOW THERE IS A PROBLEM
THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH
IMMEDIATELY AND THAT IS A
MILITARY THREAT.
IT IS A TERRORIST THREAT.
>> I DO THINK PART OF THE
QUESTION ABOUT -- SO IF WE KNOW
THAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE
GARBAGE IS OUT, WE KNOW HOW TO
GO FIX IT.
I GUESS WHAT I AM LESS CLEAR
ABOUT IS WHETHER OR NOT WE KNOW
WHAT THE FIX IT IS HERE, THAT
THERE MAY BE WAYS WE HAVE A
GENERAL KIND OF MILITARY
RESPONSE BUT THAT MAY NOT BE HOW
WE FIX IT IN THIS CASE.
>> I DON'T THINK THE PRESIDENT
DESCRIBED IT CORRECTLY.
DEGRADE AND DEFEAT ARE UBER
NEBULOUS TERMS.
IF THE GUY CAME TO MAE AND SAID
THAT'S THE MISSION, I WOULD SAY,
WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT ME TO
DO?
HERE IS WHERE I DO DISAGREE
ABOUT THE BOMBING.
I THINK IT IS ESSENTIAL.
THE IRAQIS CAN'T TAKE BACK THEIR
COUNTRY WITHOUT SUPPORT.
THAT'S ACHIEVABLE.
THAT'S ACHIEVABLE IN THE
RELATIVE SHORT TERM.
>> SO DO WE CARE IF THEY GO INTO
SYRIA AND REMAIN IN SYRIA?
>> WE CAN HAVE A SEPARATE
CONVERSATION ON THAT.
I THINK IT'S A LESSER AND
MANAGEABLE PROBLEM IF THEY'VE
BEEN DISORGANIZED AND DRIVEN
BACK.
I'LL EXPLAIN WHY.
BUT YOUR POINT IS EXACTLY RIGHT,
HOW DO YOU KEEP IT FROM JUST
HAPPENING AGAIN, RIGHT?
ONE IS THE SECTARIAN CONFLICT.
HOW DO YOU KEEP THE COUNTRY
CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO MOVE PAST
THE SECTARIAN DIVIDE UNTIL THEY
LEARN HOW TO -- NOT LEARN HOW
BUT AGREE TO LIVE TOGETHER AND
HOW DO YOU JUST KEEP ANOTHER
ISIS FROM FLOODING BACK IN
AFTER?
THAT'S THE CHALLENGE WASHINGTON,
THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
HASN'T THOUGHT ABOUT YET.
>> I THINK WE HAVE A SERIOUS
PROBLEM.
EVEN IN THE LANGUAGE, AND I HAVE
TO SAY HAVING THE LANGUAGE BE
THAT OF GARBAGE AND WILD ANIMALS
I THINK IS NOT HELPFUL.
WE'VE SEEN FOR YEARS LEVELS OF
DEMONIZATION OF INDIVIDUALS AND
ORGANIZATIONS SAYING THIS IS THE
MOST EVIL THING THAT'S EVER
EXISTED AND THE ONLY THING WE
CAN DO IS BOMB THEM.
WE SAID IT ABOUT KHAMENEI WHEN
HIS REVOLUTION HAPPENED IN IRAN.
THEN IT TURNED TO SADDAM
HUSSEIN.
THEN IT WAS THE TALIBAN.
THEN IT WAS GADHAFI.
YOU CAN GO ON AND ON.
THEN IT WAS BASHIR AL ASAD.
>> I ONLY WANT TO SUGGEST IN
THIS CASE THAT THEY -- THAT ISIS
HAS A STRATEGY OF, IN FACT,
ENCOURAGING US TO THINK THAT
WAY, THOUGH, RIGHT?
>> DEMONIZING --
>> IF THEY ARE TRYING TO GET US
TO DO THIS, WE SHOULD NOT FALL
INTO THAT TRAP.
THAT'S NOT WHAT HELPS US FIGURE
OUT WHAT THE STRATEGY SHOULD BE
TO ELIMINATE.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE WANT TO GET
RID OF ISIS.
I WANT TO GET RID OF ISIS.
THAT ISN'T THE POINT.
HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT, TO MY WAY
OF THINKING, EVERY SHORT-TERM
BOMB HE WE DROP, MAYBE YOU GET A
BAD VIBE.
MAYBE YOU GET A BUNCH OF OTHER
PEOPLE.
>> NO, IT'S NOT TRUE.
>> IT'S NOT --
>> WE AND THE REST OF THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY PUT A
LOT OF PRESSURE TO GET NURI AL
MALIKI OUT.
AND WE WERE INVOLVED.
IF WE WEREN'T, THAT WOULD NOT
HAVE HAPPENED.
OH, I'M SORRY, THE IRANIANS WERE
VERY HAPPY WITH HIM FOR A VERY
LONG TIME.
>> SO THAT'S NOT -- ALL RIGHT,
SO PAUSE FOR ME A SECOND.
>> IF YOU DON'T LOOK BEYOND
MILITARY TO SAY WHAT'S REALLY
GOING TO CHANGE THE SITUATION
THAT MAKES PEOPLE SUPPORT ISIS.
WAIT A MINUTE.
THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU ENGAGE
IN THE MILITARY STUFF, ALL THE
OTHER THINGS --
>> PAUSE FOR ME ONE SECOND
BECAUSE THE HEARINGS IN PART, MY
QUESTION, THIS IS SOMETHING YOU
SUGGESTED IN THE NOTION OF US
ENGAGING EITHER POLITICALLY OR
IN TERMS OF THE MILITARY.
HAS THE U.S. THROUGH THE SET OF
ACTIONS WE HAVE TAKEN REALLY
POST-9/11.
SO CERTAINLY THINGS BEFORE BUT
SINCE 9/11 AND PARTICULARLY WITH
THE INVASION OF IRAQ, HAS THE
U.S. BECOME A PLAYER WHO CAN NO
LONGER PLAY ON THE FIELD OF
POLITICS AND, IN FACT, CAN ONLY
BE ENGAGED IN TERMS OF THE
MILITARY BECAUSE THERE IS SUCH A
LACK OF --
>> HE SAID IT.
>> THEY ARRANGED A DEAL WHERE
MALIKI LEFT.
THAT HELD THE PROMISE OF A
UNITED GOVERNMENT IN BAGHDAD AND
MARGINALIZATION AND THAT WAS A
POLITICAL ACHIEVEMENT.
THEY KEEP THE TWO CANNDIDATES IN
AFGHANISTAN FOR GOING AFTER EACH
OTHER'S THROAT AND HAVING THE
GOVERNMENT FALL APART.
THOSE ARE ACTUALLY POLITICAL
ACHIEVEMENTS WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO
GIVE THE ADMINISTRATION CREDIT.
CAN I GET TO THE SYRIAN PIECE
REAL QUICK?
ISIS HAS DRIVEN BACK IS GREATLY
WEAKENED AND DISORGANIZED.
THEY WILL SPEND AS MUCH TIME
FIGHTING WITH THE OTHER GROUPS
IN THAT REGION AND ASSAD.
I DON'T THINK SYRIA IS A
SOLVABLE PROBLEM.
>> ISN'T THAT A HUMAN COST TO
IT?
>> WHAT'S THE MORAL DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THEM IS THIS.
>> THERE ISN'T ONE.
THERE ISN'T ONE.
>> WE'RE ARM ONE SIDE.
>> THIS WAS PART OF WHY THE
PRESIDENT DID NOT WANT TO DEFEND
THAT RED LINE, THAT KIND OF PUSH
IN THE SUMMER TO ADDRESS THE
ISSUE OF THE RED LINE.
PART OF HIS HESITATION AROUND IT
WAS A RECOGNITION THERE WAS NOT
A GOOD GUY HERE.
>> MALAKI'S DEATH SQUADS ARE
WIPING OUT COMMUNITIES.
ASSAD'S ETHNIC CLEANSING.
WITHOUT A DOUBT.
NOBODY DOES ANYTHING.
ISIS, AND THEN WE ACT.
WE ARE BASICALLY ARMING AND
CREATING A COALITION OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS.
>> WHICH IS WHY THE FREE SYRIAN
ARMY --
>> THEY HAVE NO MILITARY COMPASS
CAPACITY TO GO AFTER THESE GUYS.
THEY WILL BE SLAUGHTERED.
>> THEY HAVE FOUGHT FOR FOUR
YEARS.
THEY HAVE GAINED TERRITORY, THEY
HAVE LOST TERRITORY, BUT THEY
HAVE FOUGHT FOR FOUR YEARS.
WE ARE STILL SAYING THEY HAVE
NO --
>> BUT MILITARILY -- I DON'T
THINK THEY DO.
>> THEY HAVE FOUGHT IN
OVERWHELMING ODDS.
>> YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET
RID OF ASSAD AS LONG AS RUSSIA
AND IRAN ARE PROPPING HIM UP.
>> NOW TO THE NEXT PHASE.
ON A REGIONAL LEVEL THAT
INVOLVES IRAN.
RIGHT NOW THE U.S. HAS ENGAGED
WITH IRAN FOR THE FIRST TIME.
>> AND YOU HAVE ALSO BROUGHT
US -- PART OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE
IS BRING US TO A REALITY THAT
THERE ARE INTERCONNECTIONS
BEYOND WHERE WE MIGHT THINK
THERE ARE GEOPOLITICALLY.
WE WILL GO TO THE QUESTION OF
RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND
PARTICULARLY FOR HELPING US
THINK ABOUT THIS IN THE LONG
RUN.
UP NEXT PROGRESS AT LEAST FOR
NOW ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRISIS
ASSOCIATED WITH VLADIMIR